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  • Conservative Democrats

    The Democratic Party used to have a serious wing of conservative Democrats. Some were pro-life (i.e. the Governor of Pennsylvania, among others) and others were economically or socially conservative. Although it was more prevalent in the South, you had such Democrats in the Northeast as well (such as the aforementioned governor of PA.)

    Today you don't find this much anymore. Folks with such positions don't have a place in the party. Should they?

  • #2
    Do moderates have a place in the Republican Party?

    Do conservatives have a place in the Republican Party?

    Does anyone other than David Duke and Richard Spencer have a place in Trump's Republican Party?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by richbrudzynski View Post
      Do moderates have a place in the Republican Party?

      Do conservatives have a place in the Republican Party?

      Does anyone other than David Duke and Richard Spencer have a place in Trump's Republican Party?
      do you have any links, of a reputable nature, that backs up these outlandish, & unsupported claims of yours?

      Comment


      • #4
        richbrudzynski
        Do moderates have a place in the Republican Party?

        Do conservatives have a place in the Republican Party?

        Does anyone other than David Duke and Richard Spencer have a place in Trump's Republican Party?
        Originally posted by John S. View Post

        do you have any links, of a reputable nature, that backs up these outlandish, & unsupported claims of yours?
        1. Questions are not "outlandish, & unsupported claims"
        2. "Links" are those things you don't use to support your outlandish and unsupported claims
        3. Can you answer those questions?
        4. I'll add one more question, "Do liberals have a place in the Republican Party?"
        5. The above is not a claim, not an outlandish claim and not an unsupported claim - it is a question.

        Donald Trump tweets he deleted:
        • The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
        • He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!
        • More votes equals a loss...revolution!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Joseph View Post

          Today you don't find this much anymore. Folks with such positions don't have a place in the party. Should they?
          The Democrats used to have the virulently racist Dixiecrats who were pretty conservative as well, but they all moved over to the Republican Party in response to Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Joseph
            Some were pro-life (i.e. the Governor of Pennsylvania, among others) and others were economically or socially conservative.
            What do you mean by "pro-life" or economically or socially conservative? That you personally wouldn't choose an abortion, but other people have the right to one if it doesn't go against their conscience? That you personally would never knowingly accept financial assistance from the government and don't believe in the government spending far more than the revenue it receives, but you believe that the government should financially protect even the least among us and that wealth concentrated too strongly in the hands of too few is a threat to democracy? That you would never attend a gay person's wedding, not even your own child's, but that they shouldn't be deprived of equal rights, including careers, because they're gay?

            Or does this conservatism believe that it's really okay to dominate and discriminate, so long as you pick the "right" people to dominate and discriminate against? If liberals are to be for a genuinely representative democracy, then how can we say it's okay to decide who is not equal, who doesn't get justice, who is not protected from predatory behaviors, whose religion is not "worthy" when they're chosen to govern. That's being today's Republican.
            Cristen

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cristen View Post
              Joseph

              What do you mean by "pro-life" or economically or socially conservative? That you personally wouldn't choose an abortion, but other people have the right to one if it doesn't go against their conscience?
              As you know, "pro-life" is a code word used by the right wing and it means anti-freedom. They oppose any woman having the freedom to decide things about their own body. A much more accurate term, and one they won't use because they want to pretend they are for freedom, would be anti-choice.


              Donald Trump tweets he deleted:
              • The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
              • He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!
              • More votes equals a loss...revolution!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by richbrudzynski View Post
                Do moderates have a place in the Republican Party?

                Do conservatives have a place in the Republican Party?

                Does anyone other than David Duke and Richard Spencer have a place in Trump's Republican Party?
                I guess none of the GOPers, Tea Baggers, RWN, or alt-right (American Nazi Party, Aryan Nation, KKK, White Power) groups have the guts to answer those questions.

                What amazed me was when a GOPer actually asked for a cite on either 1) if you are allowed to ask questions or 2) if your questions are valid. What? One of the craziest things I've ever heard.

                Donald Trump tweets he deleted:
                • The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
                • He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!
                • More votes equals a loss...revolution!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joseph View Post
                  The Democratic Party used to have a serious wing of conservative Democrats. Some were pro-life (i.e. the Governor of Pennsylvania, among others) and others were economically or socially conservative. Although it was more prevalent in the South, you had such Democrats in the Northeast as well (such as the aforementioned governor of PA.)

                  Today you don't find this much anymore. Folks with such positions don't have a place in the party. Should they?
                  Have you looked? Google terms: Blue Dog, Blue Dog Democrats, Conservative Democrats

                  If you had looked you would have found Blue Dog Coalition
                  January 2013 January 2015 Rep. John Barrow (GA-12) Rep. Kurt Schrader (OR-5) Rep. Jim Cooper (TN-5)
                  January 2015 January 2017 Rep. Kurt Schrader (OR-5) Rep. Jim Costa (CA-16)
                  January 2017 present Rep. Jim Costa (CA-16) Rep. Henry Cuellar (TX-28) Rep. Dan Lipinski (IL-3)
                  As Rick pointed out, a lot of the conservative were the racists that moved to their natural home, the GOP...

                  Donald Trump tweets he deleted:
                  • The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
                  • He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!
                  • More votes equals a loss...revolution!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JerryD View Post

                    I guess none of the GOPers, Tea Baggers, RWN, or alt-right (American Nazi Party, Aryan Nation, KKK, White Power) groups have the guts to answer those questions.

                    What amazed me was when a GOPer actually asked for a cite on either 1) if you are allowed to ask questions or 2) if your questions are valid. What? One of the craziest things I've ever heard.
                    The questions were largely rhetorical. Conservatives don't have a place in the Republican Party which has split into two warring factions - the Far-Right Republican Party and the Farther-Right Republican Party.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As you know, "pro-life" is a code word used by the right wing and it means anti-freedom
                      Of course.<G> But it's entirely possible to hold one's personal views on the matter, saying that they could never condone or participate in an abortion for any reason whatsoever, and still not want to impose that view on an entire nation, respecting differences in religious views on the subject. So I have no problem with anyone who holds that personal view. Such as Joe Biden, mentioned since folk here appear to think he's a viable Presidential candidate. But it's something else when that candidate would work to restrict a woman's access to abortion, to change the Supreme Court ruling, or any other policy action along those lines. There's platform, and would it be supported by a conservative Democrat, and there's personal, and personal should simply stay just that. Otherwise, you're a Republican in Democrat clothing, not a conservative Democrat.
                      Cristen

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Bob Casey was famously pro-life.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Bob Casey was famously pro-life.
                          You'll have to educate me here. Does famously pro-life mean he did everything in his power to limit a woman's choice? Or did it mean he spoke his conscience, said he wasn't in favor of abortion, but wouldn't stand in any woman's way of getting access to an abortion? And as a pro-lifer, how committed was he to the child after it was born — you know, food, housing, education, medical care, that sort of thing? As well, how committed was he to women and their needs before they even become pregnant? Did he care about inequality, abuse, lack of equal education and job opportunities, equal pay, access to planned parenthood?

                          I wonder if pro-lifers get their way in eliminating access to abortion for all women, will we return to the medical care of the 50s and 60s. If you don't know about female reproductive care back then, you don't know enough about our history of "choice." There's always been choice. Not terrible choice for women with money in modern times. Pretty drastic choice for women without. But there's always been "choice." No matter that pro-life men govern the country or not. In fact, those pro-life men no doubt themselves had reason to encourage "choice" to save their own reputation.
                          Cristen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Joseph View Post
                            The Democratic Party used to have a serious wing of conservative Democrats. Some were pro-life (i.e. the Governor of Pennsylvania, among others) and others were economically or socially conservative. Although it was more prevalent in the South, you had such Democrats in the Northeast as well (such as the aforementioned governor of PA.)

                            Today you don't find this much anymore. Folks with such positions don't have a place in the party. Should they?
                            Well, even now there are conservative Democrats who support the free-market economy. In fact, I would say most Democrats who are in congress are somewhat conservative in that respect because they don't want to rock the economic boat, so to speak. Now, most Democrats today tend toward liberalism on social issues, such as equal
                            rights, personal choice, tolerance for the various cultures in our midst, etc. But the company where I spent my own career, while very conservative in terms of support for free markets, could also have been viewed as liberal in these same areas as well. In other words, racism, gender discrimination, etc., were not tolerated there, either.

                            Still, I see what you are saying in that there is not really a visible "wing" of the Democratic Party that stands as "conservative" these days. In the contest of ideas, the two parties support one or the other these days, rather than both. But there are conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans - they're just kind of quiet these days - and are probably the kind if people who would vote for a candidate of either party if they happened to like the individual, but who still endorse the overall philosophy if their own party and try to promote that - kind of like Independents.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not long ago there were even socially conservative Democrats.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                So-called "socially conservative Democrats - better known as "Dixiecrats" - joined the Republican Party during the 1970s and 80s in response to the Nixon Reagan Southern Strategy. Hardcore racists, such as Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, who were disillusioned with the Democratic Party's drift towards civil rights, found a warm embrace in the Republican Party's arms. Eventually, the Old South's historically "Slave States" became a Republican stronghold.

                                Today's GOP has splintered into two political parties - the Far Right and the Farther Right. The few remaining traditional conservatives such as Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are fleeing the GOP, presumably hoping to pick up the pieces after the Donald Trump debacle. The party that once boasted liberals such as Rockefiller and Lindsey is now the party of Sarah Palin. Susan Collins bravely holds on as the last GOP moderate.

                                Today's Democratic Party is home for liberal and middle-of-the-road Americans. I hope that my party will extend a hand of welcome to traditional conservatives who are fleeing the radicalism of today's GOP. We may not always see eye-to-eye, but Democrats have always been a big tent.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by richbrudzynski View Post
                                  So-called "socially conservative Democrats - better known as "Dixiecrats" - joined the Republican Party during the 1970s and 80s in response to the Nixon Reagan Southern Strategy. Hardcore racists, such as Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, who were disillusioned with the Democratic Party's drift towards civil rights, found a warm embrace in the Republican Party's arms. Eventually, the Old South's historically "Slave States" became a Republican stronghold.

                                  Today's GOP has splintered into two political parties - the Far Right and the Farther Right. The few remaining traditional conservatives such as Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are fleeing the GOP, presumably hoping to pick up the pieces after the Donald Trump debacle. The party that once boasted liberals such as Rockefiller and Lindsey is now the party of Sarah Palin. Susan Collins bravely holds on as the last GOP moderate.

                                  Today's Democratic Party is home for liberal and middle-of-the-road Americans. I hope that my party will extend a hand of welcome to traditional conservatives who are fleeing the radicalism of today's GOP. We may not always see eye-to-eye, but Democrats have always been a big tent.
                                  Rockefeller and Lindsey were the beneficiaries of a 4 party electoral system in New York where there are Liberals and Conservatives as well as Democrats and Republicans. Maybe we should hope for a couple of viable parties to supplement the traditional two party system.

                                  Keith

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