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  • #61
    Originally posted by draypoker View Post
    The Sahara had rain and therefore vegetation and animals to eat it at the same time as most of Europe was covered in ice, or very cold tundra. As the ice in Europe retreated the rain withdrew from north Africa. The desertification had nothing to do with "overgrazing".
    This might be of interest to you and others.
    Using satellite imaging and drone reconnaissance, archaeologists from Washington University in St. Louis have discovered an ancient irrigation system that allowed a farming community in arid northwestern China to raise livestock and cultivate crops in one of the world’s driest desert climates


    Read more here: https://source.wustl.edu/2018/01/irrigation/

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    • #62
      Yes, similar signs can be found in many other deserts, including the Sahara and those in South America.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post

        The Sahara had rain and therefore vegetation and animals to eat it at the same time as most of Europe was covered in ice, or very cold tundra. As the ice in Europe retreated the rain withdrew from north Africa. The desertification had nothing to do with "overgrazing".
        The point is that environments change; sometimes due to forces of nature, sometimes due to human intervention. There are moments when, hearing about "correcting the CO2 situation", all I can think is "Plant trees". Over thousands of years, the planet has become largely deforested. Climates change a lot when that happens. It would be fascinating if the British woke up tomorrow and found the island in the state it was in ancient times, for example. There are anthropologists and historians who feel that the Mongol invasions of China and Europe occurred because natural changes to the steppe was making it impossible to survive there; less water, more desert. Certainly the Hansa League in Northern Europe at the end of the Middle Ages went into steep decline when the North Sea warmed enough to drive the herring and cod into colder waters and the local economy was ruined.

        BTW, quite a lot of work is being done on the Golan. It takes time for trees to grow. It was utterly barren before 1967. [/QUOTE]

        Have you ever read A Desert Called Peace? It's on the Baen Free Library. Kratman has arabic characters populating a new planet and desertifying it. His military career was in the middle east.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mark Kirkpatrick View Post

          I'm with you up until the word "repaired". I'd prefer us to let nature run things.

          MK
          Everybody talks about climate change, but nobody can do anything about it. <snark>

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          • #65
            Originally posted by mikeofallbirds View Post

            Sorry, that's sort of one of those urban legends, arising from who knows where, but completely wrong. In fact it's pretty much the other way around.

            Most versions of it are less extreme, they claim that more than half, or even more than 75% are alive today. I've never seen 95% before.

            Demographers who have made studies of historical populations estimate that something like 107 Billion people have been born since about 50,000 years ago. So that would say that about 6.5% of all people who have lived (in the last 50K years) are alive today.
            In the 60s, population was said to be 3 billion. 7 or 8 billion now. So 6.5% is quite a low number.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Johnny Bigodes View Post



              Have you ever read A Desert Called Peace? It's on the Baen Free Library. Kratman has arabic characters populating a new planet and desertifying it. His military career was in the middle east.
              I forget who said it, but someone has remarked that the Beduin, who are often called the "sons of the desert" ought really to be called the "fathers of the desert". Both sheep and goats, unlike cattle, eat all the way down to the roots of vegetation, so nothing grows back, which is why the Beduin are true nomads, not seasonal semi-nomads.
              Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
              אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
              Proverbs 3:13

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Johnny Bigodes View Post

                In the 60s, population was said to be 3 billion. 7 or 8 billion now. So 6.5% is quite a low number.
                Low relative to what? And some of those people alive in the 60s are still alive today.

                The human population of the Earth, at any one time, has never been as large as it is today. But many more people have died than are alive today.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by mikeofallbirds View Post

                  Low relative to what? And some of those people alive in the 60s are still alive today.
                  Even I am, amazing as it might seem.
                  Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
                  אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
                  Proverbs 3:13

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Johnny Bigodes View Post

                    In the 60s, population was said to be 3 billion. 7 or 8 billion now. So 6.5% is quite a low number.
                    Your fellow JW, Rhanssen, had some rather bizarre ideas about population and population growth. I always thought he was simply trying to reconcile reality with his biblical perspective.

                    MK

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Mark Kirkpatrick View Post

                      Your fellow JW, Rhanssen, had some rather bizarre ideas about population and population growth. I always thought he was simply trying to reconcile reality with his biblical perspective.

                      MK
                      What was population in 1600?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Johnny Bigodes View Post

                        What was population in 1600?
                        A bit higher than half a billion. Probably about 550 Million or so.

                        Why? What's special about 1600?

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