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  • #61
    Metpatpetet What little Jewish instruction I got was in the Conservative tradition. But although it was a Conservative congregation the rabbi was Orthodox and saw no particular reason for females to get much in the way of religious education.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Chama View Post
      Chama: I was raised Catholic as was Mark and perhaps Mike. Yet our recollections of what we were taught seem sometimes to be very different. My experience appears to be a much harsher religion than the one they experienced.
      Yes, I was raised Catholic, and we likely were taught different things. I do remember some harshness. (Kids picked up by their ear or otherwise physically handled, ) but I don't know whether what I was taught was harsher. I did do a fair bit of reading on my own.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by mikeofallbirds View Post

        Yes, I was raised Catholic, and we likely were taught different things. I do remember some harshness. (Kids picked up by their ear or otherwise physically handled, ) but I don't know whether what I was taught was harsher. I did do a fair bit of reading on my own.
        Being picked up by the ear and being physically handled were quite common in public schools as well.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Chama View Post

          Chama: That is tough on a little kid! He sees his classmates getting all these gifts because they have been "good boys and girls." but what about him? He was a good boy, too. Most kids around here do get gifts on Hanukkah, though.
          It's become standard practice in the US, and is beginning to show up here. Traditionally, a small sum of money ["Hanukah gelt"] was given to children, to buy some sweets, but that was about all. Hanukah isn't a major holiday, or wasn't, until it began competing with Christmas.
          Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
          אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
          Proverbs 3:13

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Marte View Post
            Metpatpetet What little Jewish instruction I got was in the Conservative tradition. But although it was a Conservative congregation the rabbi was Orthodox and saw no particular reason for females to get much in the way of religious education.
            Well, your job was going to be to keep a good Jewish home and raise good Jewish children, so for what did you need advanced Jewish education? [that's actually a fallacy, since children will probably ask Momma before Papa, if they've got a question] Better you should know how to "take challah" than be able to read Talmud. <g>

            Women in general, in even developed Western countries, weren't given the level of education that boys normally got until very recent times. It was thought their underdeveloped little brains would explode if too much was stuffed into them. I remember, when reading Dorothy Sayers' "Gaudy Night", learning that while there were a couple of women's colleges at Oxford, women were not given degrees until the end of the 20s.
            Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
            אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
            Proverbs 3:13

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post

              It's become standard practice in the US, and is beginning to show up here. Traditionally, a small sum of money ["Hanukah gelt"] was given to children, to buy some sweets, but that was about all. Hanukah isn't a major holiday, or wasn't, until it began competing with Christmas.
              Chama: That has a downside for Jewish kids, though, if it gets like Christmas. The meaning of Hanukkah can get lost in the same way that the meaning of Christmas has been lost for many Christian kids. Kids, being kids, get so wrapped up in the gifts that they don't think of the reason why the holidays exist -- and they don't care.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by mikeofallbirds View Post

                Yes, I was raised Catholic, and we likely were taught different things. I do remember some harshness. (Kids picked up by their ear or otherwise physically handled, ) but I don't know whether what I was taught was harsher. I did do a fair bit of reading on my own.
                Chama: Aside from the nuns' treatment of the kids, the teachings seemed harsh to me. No matter what I did, I would likely slip up and go to hell. And, as a kid, that scared the "hell" out of me! I also did research on my own and decided to stay a Christian although not a Catholic Christian.

                I'm not trying to offend Catholics. All I'm saying is that it didn't work for me.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post

                  It's become standard practice in the US, and is beginning to show up here. Traditionally, a small sum of money ["Hanukah gelt"] was given to children, to buy some sweets, but that was about all. Hanukah isn't a major holiday, or wasn't, until it began competing with Christmas.
                  Christmas wasn't always such a big holiday either, at least in the United States. It wasn't until mid-nineteenth century that it was much celebrated.
                  Last edited by mikeofallbirds; 02-13-2018, 08:21 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post
                    the level of education that boys normally got
                    The story Isaac Asimov tells about his sister is heartbreaking. His parents (who came from an Orthodox community in Russia) didn't consider education for women to be worthwhile, so even though she moved through school at the same accelerated pace her older brother did and she was undoubtedly every bit as smart, was sent to business school to learn to be a secretary.

                    My dad's family was very boy-centric. Girls really did not exist on the same level as boys. I suppose that's to be expected given how relatively late the men in my dad's family married, and thus the large gaps between generations that allowed 19th century attitudes to prevail. My dad was born in 1922, but his grandfather was born in 1860. When my third brother was born Dad went around bragging to all his male friends "One more and I'll have a backfield." I heard him say that more than once. I didn't find out till years later that a "backfield" was four people and I therefore did not count.

                    Dad didn't bat an eyelash when I took drama instead of chemistry in high school (and he was perplexed by my insistence on taking physics the next year) but he hit the roof when one of my brothers wanted to take shop and typing. My poor brother, who had already shown that he'd done very well in shop classes and had a real aptitude for it, got forced to take German and History and flunked them both.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Chama View Post
                      nuns' treatment of the kids
                      Because I was already reading children's editions of the Iliad and the Odyssey and otherwise showing off that I was smart, my parents tried to enroll me in public school the year I turned 6 even though my birthday was well past the cutoff date for enrollment that year. After the public school turned them away they enrolled me in a Catholic school that wasn't so choosy. Nor did they require the students to be Catholic, or require the nonCatholics to participate in religious rituals.

                      I don't recall the nuns being especially "physical" with the students but I do remember that just about every time Sister Mary Ann walked into the room, a very mouthy and fearless little kid (me) got sent to stand in the corner.

                      A pox on school cutoff dates. Age is not what determines whether a kid is ready for school. But we did plan our two children's births to take place in the first half of the year to thumb our noses at the school board.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Marte View Post
                        Age is not what determines whether a kid is ready for school. But we did plan our two children's births to take place in the first half of the year to thumb our noses at the school board.

                        Your story puts Carver Sweetgum tree story to shame.

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