Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The UK Labour Party is mired in an anti-Semitism crisis

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by mikeofallbirds View Post

    Except that he said "disproportionately." Which is to say, the violent crime rate affects Jews far less than their representation in the population.
    .
    I'm surprised that statistic is available. Do the police ask a crime victim their religion? What is the figure for Baptists or atheists?
    Last edited by Tom Berney; 04-10-2018, 08:23 AM.
    Tom Berney

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post
      Tom Berney. I take it that you support Labour? If so, your animus against both Jews and Israel shows just how deep the rot is in the UK's Left wing. Don't need to link to any media; it's self-evident.
      Firstly. I have shown no animus towards Jews and I have none. . Please either withdraw that or cite an example.

      And no I don't support Labour these days. BTW there was a time when it was almost a right of passage for young British socialists to voluntarily serve some time in a kibbutz. But, as you have said, Israel has repudiated its labour roots and is no longer that country.

      I wonder if you actually read what I linked to, or you don't want your delusions challenged by facts.
      I read the links. Mostly trash. Did you read the lists of Jewish labour supporters I provided. I can provide more. Don't you think they might know more about their party than you do?

      I repeat. Why not try to be constructive? What do you think Israel should do to resolve the situation?
      Last edited by Tom Berney; 04-10-2018, 07:46 AM.
      Tom Berney

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Tom Berney View Post

        How do you work that out when the violent crime rate is 82 times higher in USA than in Israel?
        I question your statistics. I did a little googling and found the murder rate in the US about double that of Israel, and the violent crime rate about double as well.

        http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...me/Murder-rate

        MK

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Tom Berney View Post
          I'm surprised that statistic is available. Do the police ask a crime victim their religion? What is the figure for Baptists or atheists?
          First, don't misunderstand my pointing out that he said "disproportionately" as my endorsing his statistics. The first directly affects your response, which was based on proportionality.

          But feel free to argue his statistics if you wish.

          Second, they (the FBI) do collect and classify victim demographics, though not perfectly. That's often dependent on the reporting by the local LEA.

          They specifically collect information about religion in investigating whether a crime is a hate crime. There are statistics, for instance, on what percentage of victims of hate crimes are Jewish. (Though that is not limited to religious Jews.) I think that was on the order of 10%.

          Third, Joseph said "demographics outside the American Jewish community. Without trying to state what he meant, I would point out one demographic which is kept for crime victims is race. Violent crime victims are disproportionately black. In fact, I think I noted last time I checked that more violent crime victims in the US are black than are white, not just more on a proportional basis.

          It would take far more math and research than I am willing to do to use the statistics to try to compare crime victimization in Israel and the US for Jews. I'll let you and Joseph work that out. But he had already addressed the "proportional" argument. Whether you want to dispute whether his statements are accurate is up to you.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Mark Kirkpatrick View Post

            I question your statistics. I did a little googling and found the murder rate in the US about double that of Israel, and the violent crime rate about double as well.

            http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...me/Murder-rate

            MK
            Same source Nationmaster diiferent category. I referred to "violent crime" and quoted the same website. Though I agree the figures are displayed somewhat confusingly.

            See here
            http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime
            Last edited by Tom Berney; 04-10-2018, 09:45 AM.
            Tom Berney

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Mel View Post

              American employers in an array of industries — manufacturing, agriculture, trucking, home building, energy, food service, retail and others — are warning that a long-brewing labor shortage is reaching crisis proportions..
              We are facing similar problems here. As Brexit looms Europeans are becoming reluctant to come here and farmers are panicking about getting their crops picked.

              Tom Berney

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tom Berney View Post

                Same source Nationmaster diiferent category. I referred to "violent crime" and quoted the same website. Though I agree the figures are displayed somewhat confusingly.

                See here
                http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime
                The only statistic there with a "82 time more than Israel" is labelled as "murder rate" but actually stands for "murders per year" for the country as a whole. The statistic right below it "murder rate per million people" shows that the per capita murder rate is about twice that of Israel. Because it is a much more populous country, the number of murders total is much higher than that.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Tom Berney View Post

                  Firstly. I have shown no animus towards Jews and I have none. . Please either withdraw that or cite an example.
                  Message #41: It's a pity that instead you produced some ill informed self-pitying drivel. Here is a list of the casualties on both side since September 2000. 1,248 Israelis, 9,560 Palestinians, whom you do not seem to count as people, and this week your army is steadily adding more dead civilians to the latter figure. In 2008 Israel launched 'Cast Lead' a 22 day land, sea and air bombardment of Gaza killing 1,400 and wounding 5,000 making 20,000 people homeless and destroying schools, hospitals. power and water plants. THe UN investigation called that kind of barbaric collective punishment a war crime. Yet your government is thtreatening to do te same as a response the present demonstrations.

                  Operation Cast Lead occurred after more than 40,000 rockets were launched from Gaza into civilian areas of Israel. You have made other statements such as that I don't think Arabs are people

                  Further, you quote from Wikipedia:
                  "Israel asserts that since the disengagement of Israel from Gaza in 2005, Israel no longer occupies the Gaza Strip. However, as it retained certain control of Gaza's airspace and coastline, as of 2012 it continued to be designated as an occupying power"

                  THAT is why Wikipedia must be treated with caution. The statement that by "retaining a certain control of Gaza's airspace and coastline" it is an "occupying power" is an example of a Palestinian disinformation. It ignores the simple reason that Israel, for its own defense, MUST prevent deliveries of arms and war materiel to Gaza. Remember the Karin A, loaded to the gunwales? Fact: Israel does not occupy either Gaza or the PA territories. Hamas and the PA are lying.

                  I repeat. Why not try to be constructive? What do you think Israel should do to resolve the situation?
                  Ask the Palestinians. They are the ones currently indulging in aggression, promising to invade Israel. They are vowed to annihilate Israel and exterminate the Jews, and under no circumstances recognize Israel's right to exist. What we do, and I know it really annoys you, is defend ourselves. I'm sure you would prefer us to commit suicide. Dead Jews are always the object of sympathy by those who think it's not politically correct for Jews to be anything but passive. And it is obvious that you try to hide behind anti-Israelism feelings which are equated with anti-Jewish feelings, just as Corbyn and his cronies are doing.

                  If you feel so strongly, and are afraid to come to Israel, and discover the truth, why don't you go to Gaza and help them? That might also open your eyes a bit. After all, Finnish journalists who were in Gaza during the last operation only reported that UNWRA schools and hospitals were used as rocket launching sites and that arms caches were stored in residential buildings because Hamas knew the Israelis wouldn't target civilians AFTER they left Gaza because Hamas threatened their lives if they reported those things from Gaza. Your Hamas friends.
                  Last edited by Metpatpetet; 04-10-2018, 10:50 AM.
                  Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
                  אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
                  Proverbs 3:13

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post


                    Further, you quote from Wikipedia:
                    "Israel asserts that since the disengagement of Israel from Gaza in 2005, Israel no longer occupies the Gaza Strip. However, as it retained certain control of Gaza's airspace and coastline, as of 2012 it continued to be designated as an occupying power in the Gaza Strip by the United Nations Security Council and the United Nations General Assembly


                    THAT is why Wikipedia must be treated with caution??

                    You left out the last bit of the quote "in the Gaza Strip by the United Nations Security Council and the United Nations General Assembly" I've put it back in.

                    https://www.un.org/webcast/pdfs/SRES2334-2016.pdf

                    Ask the Palestinians. .
                    I don't think there are any in this Forum. So I am asking you. Have you no thoughts at all ON what Israel should do?
                    Last edited by mikeofallbirds; 04-10-2018, 03:02 PM.
                    Tom Berney

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post

                      And it is obvious that you try to hide behind anti-Israelism feelings which are equated with anti-Jewish feelings, just as Corbyn and his cronies are doing.
                      You continue to be offensive I asked ...

                      Firstly. I have shown no animus towards Jews and I have none. . Please either withdraw that or cite an example. Are you going to do it?

                      If you feel so strongly, and are afraid to come to Israel,
                      Not afraid. Unwilling. I didn't visit apartheid South Africa either.

                      why don't you go to Gaza and help them? ends.
                      Israel controls entry to its Gaza prison camp. . And has a law barring me from entry to Israel.
                      Last edited by Tom Berney; 04-10-2018, 11:15 AM.
                      Tom Berney

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        [QUOTE=Tom Berney;n68328]
                        Originally posted by Metpatpetet View Post

                        Further, you quote from Wikipedia:
                        "Israel asserts that since the disengagement of Israel from Gaza in 2005, Israel no longer occupies the Gaza Strip. However, as it retained certain control of Gaza's airspace and coastline, as of 2012 it continued to be designated as an occupying power in the Gaza Strip by the United Nations Security Council and the United Nations General Assembly

                        THAT is why Wikipedia must be treated with caution??

                        You left out the last bit of the quote "in the Gaza Strip by the United Nations Security Council and the United Nations General Assembly" I've put it back in.

                        https://www.un.org/webcast/pdfs/SRES2334-2016.pdf



                        I don't think there are any in this Forum. So I am asking you. Have you no thoughts at all ON what Israel should do?
                        The ball is entirely in the Gazans and the PA court. They have to recognize the existence of Israel, disavow all violence, and stop all incitement, and paying salaries to the families of terrorists.

                        And the UN is so anti-Israel that many in Israel want Israel to leave it. [Read some of the current US ambassador to the UN's speeches for details], so I have no time for what the UN thinks. It's a joke. And increasing numbers of Americans [not Jewish] are questioning whether the UN isn't anti-American as well.

                        After all UNWRA is one of the biggest recipients of Palestinian corruption. It uses anti-Israel school books, launches rockets from school grounds and stores arms, lists exaggerated number of aid recipients [including as "refugees" in 1948 those whose period of residence in Mandate Palestine as only "two years"], not removing those who have died from their lists. The UN "Human Rights" Commission is overtly anti-Semitic.

                        You keep saying there's a law keeping you out of Israel. Try getting on a plane as a tourist and see if you're stopped. Unless you announce that you are the member of an enemy organization, I doubt you'd even be noticed. It's just an excuse to avoid discovering how much you've been lied to. But, as I wrote above, why don't you go to Gaza instead and help your buddies and see how long you last?

                        This is a completely useless conversation. Until we hand the Palestinians the knife with which to cut our throats you won't be happy. Well, we won't.

                        Happy 70th Independence Day [April 19]! But first, tomorrow evening is the eve of Holocaust Day. You do know that Abbas is a Holocaust denier, don't you?
                        Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
                        אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
                        Proverbs 3:13

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Metpatpetet;n68346]
                          The ball is entirely in the Gazans and the PA court.
                          So you have no idea of what a desirable outcome would be, or any thoughts in anything Israel could do to bring it about? Just more of the same. Great.

                          It uses anti-Israel school books
                          That is bit rich from someone who says:

                          Wake up: this is nothing less than a war between two civilizations, and from the POV of Islam, won't end until the Infidel no longer exists.
                          Is that what they teach in Israel's schools?

                          The UN "Human Rights" Commission is overtly anti-Semitic.
                          As far as I can see, you think everything and everybody who disaqrees with you is. You sprinkle it like confetti making it meaningless.

                          You keep saying there's a law keeping you out of Israel.
                          You have a law debarring anyone who supports the BDS. It is no secret that I do. And I'm a member of Amnesty International
                          which is one of the many civil rights organisations banned.

                          Happy 70th Independence Day [April 19]!
                          Enjoy it but spare a thought for those who want to commemorate Nakba Day

                          "the Knesset in July 2001 and again in 2006, established the commemoration of the Nakba Day as a criminal offense, subject to 1-year imprisonment and/or a fine of NIS10,000 ($2,500). Palestinians argue that the bill imposes restrictions on freedom of speech and expression, curtails equality, and applies conditions that suppress the national consciousness and historical narrative of the Palestinian people"

                          . You do know that Abbas is a Holocaust denier, don't you?
                          "JERUSALEM — President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority issued a formal statement on Sunday calling the Holocaust “the most heinous crime to have occurred against humanity in the modern era” and expressing sympathy with victims’ families." New York Times

                          Last edited by mikeofallbirds; 04-10-2018, 03:25 PM.
                          Tom Berney

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            [QUOTE=Metpatpetet;n68346]
                            Originally posted by Tom Berney View Post
                            The ball is entirely in the Gazans and the PA court. They have to recognize the existence of Israel, disavow all violence, and stop all incitement, and paying salaries to the families of terrorists.
                            But it is OK for Israel to pay its soldiers? When you are celebrating Independence Day you might like to reflect how the other side see it. Moshe Dayan put it honestly at an oration for a shot soldier ...

                            ". . . Let us not today fling accusation at the murderers. What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived.

                            We should demand his blood not from the Arabs of Gaza but from ourselves. . . . Let us make our reckoning today. We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and gun barrel, we shall not be able to plant a tree or build a house. . . . Let us not be afraid to see the hatred that accompanies and consumes the lives of hundreds of thousands of Arabs who sit all around us and wait for the moment when their hands will be able to reach our blood." (Iron Wall, p. 101)


                            Last edited by Tom Berney; 04-10-2018, 02:49 PM.
                            Tom Berney

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              The British Labour Party continues on its merry way:

                              LINK LINK LINK
                              Metpatpetet מתפתפתת
                              אשרי אדם, מצא חכמה ואדם יפיק תבונה
                              Proverbs 3:13

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X